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Talk:The Monks of Thelema

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The plagiarism of "The Monks of Thelema" is significant because Aleister Crowley's religion "Thelema" and volumnous works never cite or footnote these authors or their text, especially in the "Gnostic Mass." The book gives detailed outlines and was written long before Aleister Crowley's religion -- which is significant.

How so, anonymous? I finally found an online reference at an Obscure Books community:

The only ideas resembling modern Thelemic philosophy are put in the mouth of an unsympathetic character, Mr. Paul Rondelet, a Fellow of Oxford who is repeatedly described as a "prig". (Besant himself was a Cambridge man.) He gives a speech of particular interest on page 145 in which he sarcastically praises Alan Dunlop's social improvement efforts, saying that in the future people will worship Dunlop as a kind of solar myth! The character subscribes to the New Paganism fashionable with the Oxford intelligentsia; he is scorned by Miranda in his pursuit for her hand in favor of the (practially pre-destined) Alan Dunlop.
As a work, The Monks of Thelema is only really valuable as a curiousity. And the curiousity it arouses is this: "Did Crowley read it?" The book was published when he was 12 years old, about the age at which he says in Confessions that he would sneak novels into the watercloset because his mother had forbidden him to read them. The idea that his youthful mind could have been more influenced by this popular, widely-available work than by Rabelais seems compelling.

Murray's background:

Matthew J. Murray, 24, of Englewood, CO, killed five people (including himself) and injured six during two attacks on the same day at two religious locations -- one near Denver, and the other in Colorado Springs, CO. He may have selected the Youth With a Mission Center near Denver (YWAM) as his first target because he had trained there as a missionary before being rejected by them in 2003. He may have chosen the New Life Church in Colorado Springs as his second target because it is the largest Charismatic congregation in Colorado, and he seems to have wanted to kill as many Christians as possible. In addition, he apparently attended a seminar there with his mother on at least one occasion. His attacks may have been indirectly linked to a mass murder by a 19 year-old gunman at a mall in Omaha, NE on 2007-DEC-05.

Murray was raised in a deeply religious conservative Christian home. His father, Ronald, is a neurologist who is involved in multiple sclerosis research. His mother, Loretta, was a physical therapist. She quit her career to raise her two sons, Matthew and Chris. At some time between 2003 and 2007 Matthew became disillusioned with Pentecostal and Charismatic Christianity -- two movements within conservative Protestantism.

Murray is believed to have frequently posted messages at a forum operated by the Association of Former Pentecostals (AFP) under the username "Chrstngntmr" -- presumably meaning "Christian Nightmare." The AFP is a non-profit group for individuals who have abandoned the Pentecostal or Charismatic movements, and are seeking the support of other individuals going through the same process. The AFP takes a very dim view of these Christian movements, calling them a "new 'scourge' on Christianity," and referring to their alleged "spiritual abuse and manipulation." The AFP states:

"Often, people leaving these faiths feel alone, confused, or doubtful -- feeling that perhaps they've made a mistake. We're here to let you know that you are not alone! Many people have 'walked away' and are living better for it! We hope this site and our resources can be of interest -- and perhaps even some help -- for you. Even if you're already completely 'over' this religion, we hope you'll hang around and help us help others!" 1

Several members of the AFP forum attempted to reach out to Murray. AFP president, Joe Istre, said:

"He appeared to be an isolated person. We tried to tell him to get help, to get some counseling, but he just laughed at it. ... He scared a lot of people in the forum throughout the last few months with some of pretty crazy posts but never anything violent." 2

In his postings, Murray complained about having been home-schooled. He felt that it had prevented him from being able to "socialize normally." He looked upon himself as an outcast who was always left out of things.

After Murray posted a poem titled "Crying all alone in pain in the nightmare of Christianity," Marlene Winell, a psychologist, offered to help him, but was refused. She is the author of a book that helps fundamentalist Christians who leave their faith. 3

He also is believed to have posted messages to the Independent Spirits forum. 4 This is a site devoted to people who feel that they have been negatively affected by the teachings of Bill Gothard and his Institute in Basic Life Principles. 5 The Institute produces an evangelical Christian program used by some home school parents. According to the Associated Press:

"One posting obtained by the AP was to a site called Independent Spirits, a gathering place for those affected by a strict Christian home schooling curriculum."

"The author, again going by the handle Chrstnghtmr, describes going with his mother to a conference at New Life. The poster said he 'got into a debate' with two prayer team staff members, who monitored him, then tracked down his mother and 'told her a story that went something along the lines of I 'wasn't walking with the lord [sic] and could be planning violence'.'" 6

A spokesperson for Matthew's mother denied that this event ever happened. The church has no record of the incident.

Also on Independent Spirits forum Chrstnghtmr said that at the age of 17, after having tried to go "all out for Jesus," he sank into a "dark suicidal depression." He attributed this to not being able to live up to the rules. Medication and attempts at religious healing did not help. He wrote:

"Everyone prayed, they laid hands on me, spoke in tongues over me, I sought out every kind of spiritual help I knew of in charismatic christianity." [sic] 6

In another posting, apparently by Murray, he wrote that after graduation, his options were limited to attending Oral Roberts University, a charismatic Christian university currently undergoing a major internal financial and legal crisis, or what he called a "disciple training school" run by Youth with a Mission. He selected the latter, and attended their local facility located in Arvida, CO, a suburb of Denver.

According to Apologetics Index:

"Youth With A Mission is an international, Christian missions organization operating from nearly 600 locations in over 130 countries. The organization includes more than 9,500 long-term staff members, and over 28,500 short-term workers. YWAM is involved in training, evangelism, and mercy ministries.

"...YWAM does lots of good work, the organization is not without its critics. At one time, a CRI fact-sheet pointed out the organization's cultic tendencies (primarily due to the many complaints received about abuses within YWAM's leadership structure). 7

The Associated Press reported that:

"A former YWAM staff member, Michael Werner, told the Rocky Mountain News that Murray was painfully shy and had trouble socializing after growing up sheltered. Later, he exhibited extreme mood swings, spreading rumors about homosexuality at the center and performing dark rock songs by Marilyn Manson and Linkin Park at a 2002 Christmas celebration."

One night, Werner said Murray was chattering to himself and explained he was 'just talking to my voices'." 6

After being ejected from YWAM for unspecified health reasons, he seems to have developed serious doubts about Christianity. He attended some events sponsored by Ad Astra Oasis in Denver. This is a local chapter 8 of the Ordo Templi Orientis, a spiritual group following the Law of Thelema and the writings of Aleister Crowley. They emphasize "...the ideals of individual liberty, self-discipline, self-knowledge, and universal brotherhood."  9 He applied to become a member but was rejected.

A forum posting by DyingChild_65 -- apparently another of Murray's usernames -- stated that all he got out of Christianity was:

"... hate, abuse (sexual, physical, psychological, and emotional), hypocrisy, and lies. ... I'm going out to make a stand for the weak and the defenseless this is for all those young people still caught in the Nightmare of Christianity for all those people who've been abused and mistreated and taken advantage of by this evil sick religion Christian America this is YOUR Columbine." 6

2007-DEC-09: Youth With a Mission Center shootings, Arvida, CO:

Matthew Murray, 24, killed two and injured another two persons at the Youth with a Mission Center in Arvida, CO. He had entered the center office and asked for permission to spend the night there. He was refused, and then opened fire with a handgun.

He killed Tiffany Johnson, 26, who had traveled on missions to Egypt, Libya and South Africa with YWAM. Also killed was Philip Crouse, 24. He had helped build a foster home at a Crow reservation in Montana. Staff members Dan Griebenow, 24, and Charlie Blanch, 22, were wounded. 10

After the shootings at the Center, Murray headed south to Colorado Springs. He posted a message on the AFP forum at 11:03 AM between the two attacks. He used the name "nghtmrchld26."

"You Christians brought this on yourselves. "I'm coming for EVERYONE soon and I WILL be armed to the @#%$ teeth and I WILL shoot to kill."

He copied these words verbatim from the message that Eric Harris used just before he and Dylan Klebold massacred students at Columbine High School in 1999.

Murray also wrote:

"God, I can't wait till I can kill you people. Feel no remorse, no sense of shame, I don't care if I live or die in the shoot-out. All I want to do is kill and injure as many of you ... as I can especially Christians who are to blame for most of the problems in the world." 2


When someone says, "Well my dad never had a secret temple, chanted and wore black robes...." It makes me laugh. It makes me laugh because of the reality of some of the people I've known in the past 15 years who are so seriously involved in ceremonial magic that it has become their life. My child's father, for example, has a "temple" (she no longer has a bedroom apparently) which has a sewing machine table his mother bought for him which he uses as an altar.... a sewn black robe (his mother also made for him)... and some of the things on his "altar" may be a white candle... and a scalpel which I believe he uses to cut himself in ritual ceremonies.

Yes, I find this odd as a man nearing 40 years old to still have this apparatus in his home so my daughter will have to witness it again. I have had my experiences with the occult world, pagans, ritualists etc. and myself have done rituals for various seasons or purification or what have you, as a personal spiritual quest. But when I did have a room for a "temple...." it was only to have my musical instrument set up and so I could do art. I didn't place odd masochistic objects in the strange room with strange objects that children had to witness.

And, when I look in my little secret spy places to keep tabs on the subculture, I see that still... to this day... 40+ year old men (and women I suppose) are still doing this shit. Still playing these odd games and still being utterly bizarre. I fail, at this point in my life, to see the relevance of it all. When I was 20 years old and searching for a spiritual path, I came across various midlife crisis aged men who did rituals in black robes in temples... and for some reason I was impressed. I think so because I was not raised in a religion and the pomp and ceremony of a religious experience put me in a sort of state of awe and reverence that I had not been able to feel at any time in my youth. This was certainly not the case for friends I have who were raised in a religion, especially ones that did include the whole ceremonial aspect like Roman Catholicism.

But I learned... that small dysfunctional groups that attract mostly narcissistic sociopaths are not "good" for the moral fibre of one's being, to develop self esteem or to develop knowledge of the mystical arts. You are far better off even paying for some by some quasi hindu or buddhist mystic. At least you don't have the odd chance of meeting murderous types like you do with subculture sociopath gatherings like the O.T.O.

I am just appalled. Is there some reason in the world these 40+ year old role playing fanatics who sit in front of video games all day long and talk about the intricasies of some role playing event all night long... who live in the world of make believe because their cubicles don't glean a wide enough view of nature for them to grasp that maybe real life and its intoxication is more important to vitality than whatever new thing Final Fantasy came out with. And, to top it off with the need to do the "black arts" as a thing, I mean it would be comical really if it may not actually psychologically damage children.

The lightning was so strong just now my whole apt. shook... :>

Here is a link to the most recent How to Join a Cult for Dummies (tm) video I've become aware of.....

(or... PLEASE GOD MAKE THEM STOP she screams. OR, NOBODY EXPECTS THE AEONIC INQUISITION --- to blast you away with their sheer idiocy, so you just go away screaming like a chicken with its head cut off, wondering why in the hell you had to be born *now* when such blithering people have to exist).



By the way, Cherubim is a guy who started this group through (or through the parent OTO) with my friend Dr. Hyatt named the Thelemic Golden Dawn. Many people joined it in the 1990s, all the people I met in the OTO camps were joining this too (but not me). My friend Joshua later on joined this group -- and has many stories to tell about this guy Cherubim which are both very slanderous and funny. But it came to pass that he and his wife some 15-20 years younger than him who is apparently a docile wife to him had an argument with my friend Joshua over "Who is the Antichrist" (tm). Apparently Joshua posted some documents that he wrote onto the website for OAI (another offshoot of Thelemic Golden Dawn) which upset Cherubim because these documents verged on being "better" than his own. And, since HE (Cherubim) is the self-elected Antichrist (tm), he ordered Joshua to take his documents down. Instead, Joshua just trademarked the name of the group to himself, and took over the website. Hence, the NEW OAI.

Alas, Cherubim is still chanting a hideous voiced "IO pan" along with silly slideshow pictures for Youtube though... fun stuff! (If you can stand it). I couldn't, about half way through the voice became so overwhelmining fingernails on a chalkboard.



Who, then, has been able to pronounce a name for him, this great name, except him alone to whom the name belongs and the sons of the name in whom the name of the Father is at rest, and who themselves in turn are at rest in his name, since the Father has no beginning? It is he alone who engendered it for himself as a name in the beginning before he had created the Aeons, that the name of the Father should be over their heads as a lord - that is, the real name, which is secure by his authority and by his perfect power. For the name is not drawn from lexicons nor is his name derived from common name-giving, But it is invisible. He gave a name to himself alone, because he alone saw it and because he alone was capable of giving himself a name. For he who does not exist has no name. For what name would one give him who did not exist? Nevertheless, he who exists also with his name and he alone knows it, and to him alone the Father gave a name. The Son is his name. He did not, therefore, keep it secretly hidden, but the son came into existence. He himself gave a name to him. The name, then, is that of the Father, just as the name of the Father is the Son. For otherwise, where would compassion find a name - outside of the Father? But someone will probably say to his companion, "Who would give a name to someone who existed before himself, as if, indeed, children did not receive their name from one of those who gave them birth?"

Above all, then, it is fitting for us to think this point over: What is the name? It is the real name. It is, indeed, the name which came from the Father, for it is he who owns the name. He did not, you see, get the name on loan, as in the case of others because of the form in which each one of them is going to be created. This, then, is the authoritative name. There is no one else to whom he has given it. But it remained unnamed, unuttered, `till the moment when he, who is perfect, pronounced it himself; and it was he alone who was able to pronounce his name and to see it. When it pleased him, then, that his son should be his pronounced name and when he gave this name to him, he who has come from the depth spoke of his secrets, because he knew that the Father was absolute goodness. For this reason, indeed, he sent this particular one in order that he might speak concerning the place and his place of rest from which he had come forth, and that he might glorify the Pleroma, the greatness of his name and the sweetness of his Father.

Each one will speak concerning the place from which he has come forth, and to the region from which he received his essential being, he will hasten to return once again. And he want from that place - the place where he was - because he tasted of that place, as he was nourished and grew. And his own place of rest is his Pleroma. All the emanations from the Father, therefore, are Pleromas, and all his emanations have their roots in the one who caused them all to grow from himself. He appointed a limit. They, then, became manifest individually in order that they might be in their own thought, for that place to which they extend their thoughts is their root, which lifts them upward through all heights to the Father. They reach his head, which is rest for them, and they remain there near to it so that they say that they have participated in his face by means of embraces. But these of this kind were not manifest, because they have not risen above themselves. Neither have they been deprived of the glory of the Father nor have they thought of him as small, nor bitter, nor angry, but as absolutely good, unperturbed, sweet, knowing all the spaces before they came into existence and having no need of instruction. Such are they who possess from above something of this immeasurable greatness, as they strain towards that unique and perfect one who exists there for them. And they do not go down to Hades. They have neither envy nor moaning, nor is death in them. But they rest in him who rests, without wearying themselves or becoming involved in the search for truth. But, they, indeed, are the truth, and the Father is in them, and they are in the Father, since they are perfect, inseparable from him who is truly good. They lack nothing in any way, but they are given rest and are refreshed by the Spirit. And they listen to their root; they have leisure for themselves, they in whom he will find his root, and he will suffer no loss to his soul.

Such is the place of the blessed; this is their place. As for the rest, then, may they know, in their place, that it does not suit me, after having been in the place of rest to say anything more. But he is the one in whom I shall be in order to devote myself, at all times, to the Father of the All and the true brothers, those upon whom the love of the Father is lavished, and in whose midst nothing of him is lacking. It is they who manifest themselves truly since they are in that true and eternal life and speak of the perfect light filled with the seed of the Father, and which is in his heart and in the Pleroma, while his Spirit rejoices in it and glorifies him in whom it was, because the Father is good. And his children are perfect and worthy of his name, because he is the Father. Children of this kind are those whom he loves.

From Robert M. Grant, Gnosticism (Harper & Brothers, New York, 1961),
as quoted in Willis Barnstone, The Other Bible (Harper & Row, San Francisco, 1984).



O Thou Mighty and Unconquerable One,
Thou Warrior Lord of the Blazing Sun!
O Master of the Great War of Eternity,
Thou Lord of Battle, Blood and Victory:
Thee I invoke from the Sphere of Severity!

O Thou, the Almighty and Invincible Lord,
Thou God of the Blood shed by the Sword!
Leader of the dreadful Host of Soldiery,
Invincible Ruler of the Celestial Army:
Thee I invoke from the Sphere of Severity!

O Thou Lord of the Eagle and the Snake,
Ruler of the Sign of Stars I partake!
Great Lord of Death and the Holy Mystery
Of Divine Resurrection and Immortality:
Thee I invoke from the Sphere of Severity!

O Thou Lord of the Great Ram of Fire,
Thou Royal Emperor of the Flaming Empire!
O Lord exalted in the Goat of Liberty --
The Holy Horned God of Lust and Lechery:
Thee I invoke from the Sphere of Severity!

For it is I, the Chosen Warrior Priest
Of the Terrible God enthroned in the East!
Therefore I invoke, and I implore of Thee
To come Thou forth and to be one with me,
O Warrior Lord of the Sphere of Severity!


By the Seal of the Flaming Red Stars!
By the Sigil of the Red Planet Mars!
By the Might of this Holy Sword I bare!
And by the Words of Power I do declare:
Mars is invoked from the Inscrutable Air!

By the Mystery of my Holy Cloak of Red!
By the Dangers of the Holy Path I tread!
By the Magick of the Holy Ring I wear!
And by the Star on the Holy Lamen I bare:
Mars is invoked for the coming Warfare!

By the Power of the Stele in the East!
By the Word of the Book of the Beast!
By virtue of the Ordeal of this Rite!
And by the Strength of my Will to Fight:
Mars is invoked to stir me with Might!

By all the Grand Promises of The Word!
By all the Spells and Curses Unheard!
By every sharp pang of Justice and Fear!
And by the Red Eye which sheds no Tear:
Mars is invoked from the Red-Ruby Sphere!

By Ra-Hoor-Khuit, and by Elohim Gibor!
By Holy Kamael and the Seraphim I adore!
By Khem, Mentu and the Great God Hoor!
By Ares, Mars, Hachiman and Mighty Thor:
Mars is invoked for the coming Holy War!



Pop star PINK heaped praise on US chat show host JIMMY KIMMEL last night (10APR07) after learning he had fought hard to allow her to perform controversial new tune DEAR MR. PRESIDENT. The TROUBLE star's musical letter to GEORGE W. BUSH has been unofficially banned from radio stations in the US and Pink told Kimmel many DJs have been told they can't even talk about the track or chat to her about it if she's a guest. In the controversial song, Pink asks, "How can you say no child is left behind/We're not dumb and we're not blind/They're all sitting in your cells/While you pave the road to hell." The super-critical song continues, "What kind of father would take his own daughter's rights away/And what kind of father might hate his own daughter if she were gay/I can only imagine what the first lady has to say/You've come a long way from whisky and cocaine." Pink told the JIMMY KIMMEL LIVE host, "I have to thank you so much (because) you're the only show that's not afraid of letting me sing Dear Mr. President... I can't even speak about it on radio. "It's a questioning song. I think that's one of my more intelligent songs... These are my questions, they're not theoretical. I think they're questions that a lot of people have and we could probably use some answers." When Kimmel joked if the pop star was hoping Bush will reply with a song attacking her, she quipped, "Yes, through EMINEM."



"Dear Mr. President"
(feat. Indigo Girls)

Dear Mr. President,
Come take a walk with me.
Let's pretend we're just two people and
You're not better than me.
I'd like to ask you some questions if we can speak honestly.

What do you feel when you see all the homeless on the street?
Who do you pray for at night before you go to sleep?
What do you feel when you look in the mirror?
Are you proud?

How do you sleep while the rest of us cry?
How do you dream when a mother has no chance to say goodbye?
How do you walk with your head held high?
Can you even look me in the eye
And tell me why?

Dear Mr. President,
Were you a lonely boy?
Are you a lonely boy?
Are you a lonely boy?
How can you say
No child is left behind?
We're not dumb and we're not blind.
They're all sitting in your cells
While you pave the road to hell.

What kind of father would take his own daughter's rights away?
And what kind of father might hate his own daughter if she were gay?
I can only imagine what the first lady has to say
You've come a long way from whiskey and cocaine.

How do you sleep while the rest of us cry?
How do you dream when a mother has no chance to say goodbye?
How do you walk with your head held high?
Can you even look me in the eye?

Let me tell you 'bout hard work
Minimum wage with a baby on the way
Let me tell you 'bout hard work
Rebuilding your house after the bombs took them away
Let me tell you 'bout hard work
Building a bed out of a cardboard box
Let me tell you 'bout hard work
Hard work
Hard work
You don't know nothing 'bout hard work
Hard work
Hard work

How do you sleep at night?
How do you walk with your head held high?
Dear Mr. President,
You'd never take a walk with me.
Would you?

'Cult' fights claims of child sacrifice
Barney Zwartz
November 22, 2006

AN ANTI-CHILD-SEX campaigner accused an occult religious group of
hosting parties at which naked children acted as waiters and at
which members had sex with and murdered children, a tribunal was
told yesterday.

The obscure group Ordo Templi Orientis (OTO) claims Dr Reina
Michaelson and the Child Sexual Abuse Prevention Program described
it in a website article as a satanic cult that sacrificed children
and ate their organs and blood.

It has complained under Victoria's religious hatred law that Dr
Michaelson and her organisation vilified OTO members, causing
revulsion, ridicule, hatred and contempt.

According to OTO's statement of complaint, Dr Michaelson said it was
not a religion but a child pornography and pedophile ring, that its
members practised trauma-based mind control, sexual abuse and
satanic rituals to discourage its victims from complaining to the
authorities, and that it condoned kidnapping street children and
babies and children from orphanages for sex and sacrifice in
religious rituals.

The case began at the Victorian Civil and Administrative Tribunal
yesterday, but was adjourned to today to allow a last-ditch attempt
to settle out of court.

The article, still accessible on a website run from NSW, suggests
senior politicians and television celebrities are part of a top-
level pedophile ring and have been protected by some police. It says
some members of the ring pretended to support Dr Michaelson's
campaign and became board members of her group to subvert it from

Adam Paszkowski, for Dr Michaelson, who was named Young Australian
of the Year in 1997 for founding the Child Sexual Abuse Prevention
Program, said the article was published on the website "without her
knowledge or consent or authority".

Dr Michaelson last year called for a royal commission to investigate
her claims that Victoria Police did not properly investigate
pedophile ring allegations.

Earlier complaints led to a report by the police ombudsman in 2004
that was highly critical of two senior detectives.

OTO members follow a religion known as Thelema, founded by occultist
Aleister Crowley.

For anyone who wants to see the video depicting Muslim women, that Theo Van Gogh was murdered for by Islamic fundamentalists, I uploaded it to Myspace:



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